Need Help with This

I am currently on the MAOI drug called "Nardil" (also known as Phenelzine), and have been for the past 3 years at a dose of 60mg each day, taken all at once in the morning, but for the past year or two it's basically been doing next to nothing for either my depression or anxiety it seems... the only way I've been able to stay functional is taking Kratom every day, three times a day (about 2 grams per dose), which I've done for about a year and a half now, along with more recently for the past 6 months drinking about 3 cups of coffee a day along side those Kratom doses.

Do you know if NSI-189 would help me withdraw off of Nardil? And perhaps Kratom as well? I have 2 grams of it. Would there be better options? (Although what's really important to me right now is quitting Nardil without ending up severely depressed or anxious so that I can continue to function normally at my job.)

Basically, I feel trapped on Nardil and Kratom/Caffeine now even though the Nardil doesn't really do anything at this point... the Caffeine and Kratom are doing most of the leg work.

Can you please give me advice on how to best withdraw off Nardil in a relatively quick amount of time, as well as what might best replace it? My plan right now is to use NSI-189 alongside perhaps Tianeptine & Semax in order to get off all three substances (Nardil, Kratom, Caffeine) but there are so many other options... sublingual Kava, Polygala Tenuifola, CBD oil, Ketamine, microdosed mushrooms (psilocybin), microdosed LSD.... the list goes on and on.

I should mention as well, that I recently purchased both O-PCE and Deschloroketamine. I do not intend to use them currently, as I am unsure of their potential risk for inducing serotonin syndrome, but might one or both of these be utilized concurrently during a Nardil taper to give me an antidepressant "afterglow" akin to Ketamine and help get off Nardil..? (I recall someone telling me a while ago who was also on Nardil that Ketamine helped them withdraw off)

So, as you can see, I'm all over the place and unsure of how to proceed.. all I know for sure is, I NEED to get off Nardil, as it is negatively impacting me physically as well as my cognition and memory. And at this point honestly, I believe I may have naturally high serotonin levels and perhaps I need less to begin with rather than more as Nardil's MAO-A inhibiting effect has been doing? Due to research I've been doing and comments by multiple people...

Please help me I will be forever endebted.

Hello my friend hworth, and certainly, Welcome to our forum! We hope you enjoy our work & research.

My observation is that long-term Nardil users get ''desensitized'' like with other antidepressants.

The serotonin release eventually becomes disinhibited. That equates to elevated serotonin levels. Not a good scenario.

My advice is to alleviate the anhedonia with neurotrophics, endorphin toners and hormone optimizers.

Try this:

~One teaspoon of Cayenne pepper per day.
~Optimize B12 levels.
~Cordyceps Powder / Extract.

Lift weights and run 3x per week. Add kale, mushrooms and high protein foods.

NSI-189 may help but may poop out as well if other steps aren't implemented.

Area-1255 wrote:Hello my friend hworth, and certainly, Welcome to our forum! We hope you enjoy our work & research.

My observation is that long-term Nardil users get ''desensitized'' like with other antidepressants.

The serotonin release eventually becomes disinhibited. That equates to elevated serotonin levels. Not a good scenario.

My advice is to alleviate the anhedonia with neurotrophics, endorphin toners and hormone optimizers.

Try this:

~One teaspoon of Cayenne pepper per day.
~Optimize B12 levels.
~Cordyceps Powder / Extract.

Lift weights and run 3x per week. Add kale, mushrooms and high protein foods.

NSI-189 may help but may poop out as well if other steps aren't implemented.

So how quickly would you recommend titrating the dosage of Nardil until I've stopped taking it completely...?

Also, do you recommend beginning any adjunct nootropics/supplements/etc while doing so? I.e., Tianeptine sulfate, NSI-189, Semax, Selank, Pregnenolone, DHEA, etc.?

basically, my biggest concern right now is getting off Nardil whilst ensuring I don't become severely depressed or dysfunctional. Although right now I STRONGLY suspect messed up adrenals from the severe tiredness Im dealing with, coupled with the fact that I have 3 cups of coffee every day.

Don't get me wrong, your recommendations on the optimization of B12 levels, one teaspoon of Cayenne a day, and Cordyceps are greatly appreciated! But I need more advice to go along with this in order to create a plan for myself to finally get off Nardil and correct these hormonal/neurochemical issues

hworth wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:Hello my friend hworth, and certainly, Welcome to our forum! We hope you enjoy our work & research.

My observation is that long-term Nardil users get ''desensitized'' like with other antidepressants.

The serotonin release eventually becomes disinhibited. That equates to elevated serotonin levels. Not a good scenario.

My advice is to alleviate the anhedonia with neurotrophics, endorphin toners and hormone optimizers.

Try this:

~One teaspoon of Cayenne pepper per day.
~Optimize B12 levels.
~Cordyceps Powder / Extract.

Lift weights and run 3x per week. Add kale, mushrooms and high protein foods.

NSI-189 may help but may poop out as well if other steps aren't implemented.

So how quickly would you recommend titrating the dosage of Nardil until I've stopped taking it completely...?

Also, do you recommend beginning any adjunct nootropics/supplements/etc while doing so? I.e., Tianeptine sulfate, NSI-189, Semax, Selank, Pregnenolone, DHEA, etc.?

basically, my biggest concern right now is getting off Nardil whilst ensuring I don't become severely depressed or dysfunctional. Although right now I STRONGLY suspect messed up adrenals from the severe tiredness Im dealing with, coupled with the fact that I have 3 cups of coffee every day.

Don't get me wrong, your recommendations on the optimization of B12 levels, one teaspoon of Cayenne a day, and Cordyceps are greatly appreciated! But I need more advice to go along with this in order to create a plan for myself to finally get off Nardil and correct these hormonal/neurochemical issues

I would start the supplements BEFORE tapering off of the Nardil. I would take a 4-8 week taper time before going off of Nardil totally.

Otherwise you may experience more unpleasant symptoms than just withdrawal. The body needs to reach some form of homeostasis before all engines are running efficiently. That can't (generally) happen by forcing a fast withdrawal from a drug.

I would also consider Saffron supplementation, as it has good efficacy AND HUMAN studies demonstrating benefit for Depression & Anhedonia.

--> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24299602

Area-1255 wrote:I would start the supplements BEFORE tapering off of the Nardil. I would take a 4-8 week taper time before going off of Nardil totally.

Otherwise you may experience more unpleasant symptoms than just withdrawal. The body needs to reach some form of homeostasis before all engines are running efficiently. That can't (generally) happen by forcing a fast withdrawal from a drug.

I would also consider Saffron supplementation, as it has good efficacy AND HUMAN studies demonstrating benefit for Depression & Anhedonia.

--> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24299602

Do you think decreasing my Nardil dose by 1 pill (15mg) every 2 weeks sounds like a good plan? Or would you do it slower/faster..?

Also, do you think I should start taking the Cordyceps powder/extract & Cayenne pepper while still on Nardil?

Should I start supplementing with the adjunct nootropics like Tianeptine, Semax, Selank etc. while on Nardil?

Do you think either DHEA or Pregnenolone would be useful for my symptoms + coming off the Nardil?

hworth wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:I would start the supplements BEFORE tapering off of the Nardil. I would take a 4-8 week taper time before going off of Nardil totally.

Otherwise you may experience more unpleasant symptoms than just withdrawal. The body needs to reach some form of homeostasis before all engines are running efficiently. That can't (generally) happen by forcing a fast withdrawal from a drug.

I would also consider Saffron supplementation, as it has good efficacy AND HUMAN studies demonstrating benefit for Depression & Anhedonia.

--> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24299602

Do you think decreasing my Nardil dose by 1 pill (15mg) every 2 weeks sounds like a good plan? Or would you do it slower/faster..?

Also, do you think I should start taking the Cordyceps powder/extract & Cayenne pepper while still on Nardil?

Should I start supplementing with the adjunct nootropics like Tianeptine, Semax, Selank etc. while on Nardil?

Do you think either DHEA or Pregnenolone would be useful for my symptoms + coming off the Nardil?

I just told you to start the supplements; Cordyceps, Cayenne etc before starting the taper. Start by decreasing by one half of pill NOT a whole pill.

Don't bother with Tianeptine. You could add Semax, though.

Super Rhodiola by Ceretropic may help as well. Particularly for long-term use! So start with that.

Area-1255 wrote:
I just told you to start the supplements; Cordyceps, Cayenne etc before starting the taper. Start by decreasing by one half of pill NOT a whole pill.

Don't bother with Tianeptine. You could add Semax, though.

Super Rhodiola by Ceretropic may help as well. Particularly for long-term use! So start with that.

My apologies, I just didn't know if you were referring to the Codyceps/etc or my suggested supplements before when you said to begin them before tapering.

Thank you so much for the advice, Area-1255. I will look into purchasing Super Rhodiola and Semax, and begin the Cayenne/Cordyceps.

I'll update in a few days to a week when I see how the supplementation and taper is going!

hworth wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:
I just told you to start the supplements; Cordyceps, Cayenne etc before starting the taper. Start by decreasing by one half of pill NOT a whole pill.

Don't bother with Tianeptine. You could add Semax, though.

Super Rhodiola by Ceretropic may help as well. Particularly for long-term use! So start with that.

My apologies, I just didn't know if you were referring to the Codyceps/etc or my suggested supplements before when you said to begin them before tapering.

Thank you so much for the advice, Area-1255. I will look into purchasing Super Rhodiola and Semax, and begin the Cayenne/Cordyceps.

I'll update in a few days to a week when I see how the supplementation and taper is going!

Do one HALF a teaspoon of Cayenne pepper, not a whole one. Or you could take Cayenne capsules. Organic powder is preferred.

Area-1255 wrote:

hworth wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:
I just told you to start the supplements; Cordyceps, Cayenne etc before starting the taper. Start by decreasing by one half of pill NOT a whole pill.

Don't bother with Tianeptine. You could add Semax, though.

Super Rhodiola by Ceretropic may help as well. Particularly for long-term use! So start with that.

My apologies, I just didn't know if you were referring to the Codyceps/etc or my suggested supplements before when you said to begin them before tapering.

Thank you so much for the advice, Area-1255. I will look into purchasing Super Rhodiola and Semax, and begin the Cayenne/Cordyceps.

I'll update in a few days to a week when I see how the supplementation and taper is going!

Do one HALF a teaspoon of Cayenne pepper, not a whole one. Or you could take Cayenne capsules. Organic powder is preferred.

Okay, so the past two days I finally worked up the nerve to decrease my Nardil dosage by 1/2 a pill... didn't change any other variables.

However, even just this slight reduction caused a rather large & noticeable change in my mood and ability to focus. I could barely comprehend what people were saying to me in conversations and keep a normal pace of response because I was so spacey. So, this morning I decided to take my usual full dose rather than stick with the decrease until I figure out how to get past this.

Any ideas? Do you think it has to do with lessened dopamine/Phenylethylamine from the decreased dose, or more likely to be lessened GABA from less GABA-T being inhibited by the dose decrease..? Maybe something else entirely.


Would Ketamine or another NMDA antagonist analogue of it like Deschloroketamine (which I happen to have on hand) help to re-regulate the neurotransmitter receptor changes induced by Nardil back to homeostasis right away...? If I used it during the taper of Nardil

No. I don't think Ketamine analogues are the right way to go. They provide mood boosting effects but have too many variables in dosing and Cognitive Effects.

Try a Slower taper.

Try decreasing by 1/4 the amount you stated originally. As far as WHY, its hard to speculate, could be GABA-T, could be glutamate rebound, could be a lot of things.