excess serotonin

So I dont quite get it are my serotonin receptor just sensetive and serotonin has an stronger effect on me or are my serotonin lvls high?

Farshad wrote:So I dont quite get it are my serotonin receptor just sensetive and serotonin has an stronger effect on me or are my serotonin lvls high?

I think its both. But mostly your receptors are genetically too sensitive.

Area-1255 wrote:

Farshad wrote:So I dont quite get it are my serotonin receptor just sensetive and serotonin has an stronger effect on me or are my serotonin lvls high?

I think its both. But mostly your receptors are genetically too sensitive.

okay.. is this a  rare mutaiton?  I have almost never seen anyone like me
besides a few people that you can find on the internet.

If you wanna look them up I study these guys behaviour and I can tell they have the same issues as me even tho they arent middle eastern.

1. Roy Jones Jr (hes a boxer if you watch interviews etc)
2. The HodgeTwins Kevin but  his twin brother keith doesent have it He seems to have Low serotonin I think.. thus he looks agressive all the time.. I think since they are twins Kevin got 4 short ones.. so he got keiths 5-httplr and so keith has 0 while kevin has 4...
3. bart kwan
4. joe jo
bart kwan and joe jo are friends.. coincidence or just people with high serotonin attracted to each other?
you can find all these people on youtube.... I dont know if you can tell just by their behaviour but just thought I should mention it. I can tell they have the same problem as me which is high serotonin.

Area-1255 wrote:

Farshad wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:

Farshad wrote:No  I havent tried androstatrienedione if thats what ATD means

No, I mean acute tryptophan depletion. Depriving yourself from all dietary tryptophan. For at least 2-4 days.

nop. should I try and not eat for 4 days? I can

No, don't fast entirely.
Eat Gelatin/Jello and drink water. You would intake ALL of your essential amino's EXCEPT Tryptophan. Therefore, you would need to BUY every amino acid separately. Then take the following concocted amount.

As said in the study...
L-alanine 5.5 g, L-arginine 4.9 g, L-cysteine 2.7 g, glycine 3.2 g, L-histidine 3.2 g,
L-isoleucine 8 g,
L-leucine 13.5 g, L-lysine monohydrochloride 11 g,
L-methionine 3 g, L-phenylalanine 5.7 g, L-proline 12.2 g, L-serine 6.9 g,
L-threonine 6.9 g, L-tyrosine, 6.9 g, and L-valine 8.9 g.

So you would buy them all separately.
You need to supplement that amount (approximately) each day, twice a day.
Once a day can be fine too. Or you can split it up half-dose each.
Just don't eat ANYTHING except steak Gelatin or Jello.

You can not do this for any more than a few days at a time.
Beware though, side-effects are plenty for some people.
For example, you may get an unforseen change in mental status, energy levels (extreme mania!) and also some people have experienced odd/eccentric behavior. Personally, I do not experience these exact effects (negative) however I had mild Insomnia on the days that I did it.

so what would this prove? we already know my serotonin levels are high/sensetive  right? so how can I fix it?

also doesent steak have a lot of tryptophan?
and can I not take progesterone to increase MAO-a to reduce serotonin?

does this sensetive / high serotonin receptor affect just the brain? or other parts of the body also like the gut which there serotonin is a lot .

so only 5ht2c and 5ht3 are affected? so I can take white willow bark and Panax Ginseng and im cured?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7568554

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15214507

Ginseng is definitely good.

If 5ht2c is overactivated you may notice that by delayed ejaculation theoretically.

5ht3 can be more sensitive in situation of inhibited transporter.

I think lisuride is worth trying. Don't insist though)

Mao-a is associated with anxiety. Progesterone is tricky but if you look one of a few Ray Peat public speeches on Youtube you can notice he's not the most confident person at all.

-Fatigue (low histamine?)
-Depression (tells nothing by default)
-Social Anxiety/high anxiety, panic
-Stupid (yes high serotonin does make you stupid) (def. no more than Mike Tyson)))
-Difficult to concentrate (I noticed that when took p5p and passion flower (chrysin?), migraines contribute)
-Loss of balance (parkinson's correlate with social anxity)
-No feelings
-Don´t enjoy anything
-No motivation to do anything
-Bored all the time
-Sweat easily/get warm fast (acetylcholine due to high dopamine)
-Headaches (ht2a)
-Angry fast/irritated
-Sensitive to noise
-High pain threshold (I had the opposite)
-noncompetitive in sports or games (histamine?)
-food/chemical sensitivities
- high musical or artistic ability
-underachievement (histamine?)
-sleep disorders (ht2a? ht6?)
-low libido
-paranoia
-head and neck pain (ht2a - thiamine, berberine?)
-tendency to ruminate on thoughts (people with pssd notice reduction of this)
-state of confusion
-Creativity (ht2a)
-Heavy body hair (highly doubt)
-pacing or constant movement (d1/d2 signalling disorder)
-sensitive type
-overreact to life experiences (yeah, I did that too)
-hyperactivity (d1/d2 had this on forskolin and phenylpiracetam)
-belief that everyone thinks ill of them
-dry eyes and mouth (typical for pfs disorder and sign of low histamine)
-nervous legs, pacing
-tendency to be overweight (I'm the opposite, look at histamine and insulin resistance)
-low testosterone
-OCD
-Dizzy/nauseas (nausea depends on ht3 receptor)

Yeah I actually do have delayed ejaculation  ...

anyway are only 5ht3 and 5ht2c affected by this mutation the other serotonin receptors are fine? I have tried metergoline and Cyproheptadine 2 powerful serotonin antagonists so im over them now they dont work for me.


But supplements have . So Panax Ginseng for 5ht3 and what should I go for to block 5ht2c?

also is it worth trying eleuthero  in my case? I read it only reduces serotonin that releases when working out nothing else.


(edit) also I think Progesterone blocks or decreases 5ht2c not sure tho , maybe blocks 5ht3 too? or other serotonin receptors.

can anyone link me the ATD study? might try it out in the future.

also isnt trypotphan involved in making niacin?

Farshad wrote:can anyone link me the ATD study? might try it out in the future.

also isnt trypotphan involved in making niacin?

niacin is involved in making 5-ht from tryptophan

niacin didn't work for me well, I think it even gave me anhedonia, it's not good for testosterone and blood sugar problems. but some people really claim nicotinamide in high doses helps anxiety and schizophrenia

https://area-1255.forumotion.com/t3-all-serotonin-receptor-and-antagonist

just a few last questions
1.  only 5ht2c and 5ht3 are affected? so I can take white willow bark(to block 5ht2c) and Panax Ginseng
(block 5ht3) and im cured? or are other serotonin receptors also affected by these gene mutation or whatever it is I have?
2.do you have any more INFO on the ATD?  (links?) Is it possible to just go 4 days without anything just water? or will that not work?
3.is it worth trying eleuthero  in my case? I read it only reduces serotonin that releases when working out nothing else. Looks like panax ginseng inhibits exercise induced increases in serotonin also. So pointless in trying eleuthero?
4.  doesent steak have a lot of tryptophan? so why would I eat it during ATD ?
5. are 5ht2c and ht3 the only serotonin receptors involved in anxiety?
What do You guys think I should do?

study for the white willow bark
globinmed.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81664:salix-alba&Itemid=148

ran my file trough selfdecode found these:
rs4251417 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is CC, which is observed in 95% of all individuals reported.
rs2129785 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is TT, which is observed in 93% of all individuals reported.

So the first 2 are normal right? then these 2:

rs11867581 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is AA, which is observed in 31% of all individuals reported.

AA= Short Allele 91% of the time. AG= long 96% of the time. GA =always long

The A (minor) allele is associated with:

Short allele= lower transporter, higher 5HT.
better response to bright light.
The G (major) allele is associated with:

associated with lower levels of serotonin [R].

rs2020934 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is AA, which is observed in 30% of all individuals reported.

rs4251417 (C) (Me=CC) rs2020934 (A) (Me=AA)= Short allele (r2=0.72)S=lower transporter, higher 5HT


Anyway I hope somebody can answear the 5 questions In my previous post.

Wont bother you guys no more after.


SERT (also known as SLC6A4) encodes a protein that transports serotonin. It also stops the action of serotonin and recycles it in a sodium-dependent manner (R).
Mutations of this gene has been shown to affect the rate of serotonin uptake and can help cause sudden infant death syndrome, aggressive behavior in Alzheimer disease patients, and depression-susceptibility in people experiencing emotional trauma (R).

Farshad wrote:ran my file trough selfdecode found these:
rs4251417 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is CC, which is observed in 95% of all individuals reported.
rs2129785 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is TT, which is observed in 93% of all individuals reported.

So the first 2 are normal right? then these 2:

rs11867581 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is AA, which is observed in 31% of all individuals reported.

AA= Short Allele 91% of the time. AG= long 96% of the time. GA =always long

The A (minor) allele is associated with:

Short allele= lower transporter, higher 5HT.
better response to bright light.
The G (major) allele is associated with:

associated with lower levels of serotonin [R].

rs2020934 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is AA, which is observed in 30% of all individuals reported.

rs4251417 (C) (Me=CC) rs2020934 (A) (Me=AA)= Short allele (r2=0.72)S=lower transporter, higher 5HT


Anyway I hope somebody can answear the 5 questions In my previous post.

Wont bother you guys no more after.


SERT (also known as SLC6A4) encodes a protein that transports serotonin. It also stops the action of serotonin and recycles it in a sodium-dependent manner (R).
Mutations of this gene has been shown to affect the rate of serotonin uptake and can help cause sudden infant death syndrome, aggressive behavior in Alzheimer disease patients, and depression-susceptibility in people experiencing emotional trauma (R).

First you say you have two-long types, now you say its two short, which is correct? I presume two-short fits your style more.
That would again, indicate LESS serotonin clearance and more serotonin buildup. It also would mean more Anxiety, Agitation and higher susceptibility to Delirium.

Those with SERT Short-Short (+/+) and have also the other genes you mentioned would have these issues. However, interestingly "enhanced" 5-HT2C would also make you more susceptible to Priapism as a side-effect from some meds. Meaning, you might get random long-lasting hard-on's from pro-serotonin drugs. However, libido would be lower.

Idea is, you need to find a way to target the SERT in your favor.

You could try Evodiamine + berberine?
See here --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21647174

Area-1255 wrote:

Farshad wrote:ran my file trough selfdecode found these:
rs4251417 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is CC, which is observed in 95% of all individuals reported.
rs2129785 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is TT, which is observed in 93% of all individuals reported.

So the first 2 are normal right? then these 2:

rs11867581 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is AA, which is observed in 31% of all individuals reported.

AA= Short Allele 91% of the time. AG= long 96% of the time. GA =always long

The A (minor) allele is associated with:

Short allele= lower transporter, higher 5HT.
better response to bright light.
The G (major) allele is associated with:

associated with lower levels of serotonin [R].

rs2020934 linked to the gene SERT. Your genotype is AA, which is observed in 30% of all individuals reported.

rs4251417 (C) (Me=CC) rs2020934 (A) (Me=AA)= Short allele (r2=0.72)S=lower transporter, higher 5HT


Anyway I hope somebody can answear the 5 questions In my previous post.

Wont bother you guys no more after.


SERT (also known as SLC6A4) encodes a protein that transports serotonin. It also stops the action of serotonin and recycles it in a sodium-dependent manner (R).
Mutations of this gene has been shown to affect the rate of serotonin uptake and can help cause sudden infant death syndrome, aggressive behavior in Alzheimer disease patients, and depression-susceptibility in people experiencing emotional trauma (R).

First you say you have two-long types, now you say its two short, which is correct? I presume two-short fits your style more.
That would again, indicate LESS serotonin clearance and more serotonin buildup. It also would mean more Anxiety, Agitation and higher susceptibility to Delirium.

Those with SERT Short-Short (+/+) and have also the other genes you mentioned would have these issues. However, interestingly "enhanced" 5-HT2C would also make you more susceptible to Priapism as a side-effect from some meds. Meaning, you might get random long-lasting hard-on's from pro-serotonin drugs. However, libido would be lower.

Idea is, you need to find a way to target the SERT in your favor.

You could try Evodiamine + berberine?
See here --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21647174

I dont know man its all confusing me too im just copying and pasting what it says. your right I need to target my Sert. But I do know my serotonin is High not for a fact but  im pretty sure.

I will try that Evodiamine + berberine. what dosages ? how will this combo affect me? Im not good at understanding studies .

where can I get Evodiamine ?
will this work? it has other ingredients but it says it has 3,685mg evodiamine https://www.bodybuilding.com/store/controlled-labs/white-flood-classic.html

Farshad wrote:
I dont know man its all confusing me too im just copying and pasting what it says. your right I need to target my Sert. But I do know my serotonin is High not for a fact but  im pretty sure.

I will try that Evodiamine + berberine. what dosages ? how will this combo affect me? Im not good at understanding studies .

where can I get Evodiamine ?
will this work? it has other ingredients but it says it has 3,685mg evodiamine https://www.bodybuilding.com/store/controlled-labs/white-flood-classic.html

Yeah White Flood might work.
For Berberine use Thorne Research Brand.

Area-1255 wrote:

Farshad wrote:
I dont know man its all confusing me too im just copying and pasting what it says. your right I need to target my Sert. But I do know my serotonin is High not for a fact but  im pretty sure.

I will try that Evodiamine + berberine. what dosages ? how will this combo affect me? Im not good at understanding studies .

where can I get Evodiamine ?
will this work? it has other ingredients but it says it has 3,685mg evodiamine https://www.bodybuilding.com/store/controlled-labs/white-flood-classic.html

Yeah White Flood might work.
For Berberine use Thorne Research Brand.

theres 2 versions that one doesent seem to have Evodiamine I think?
http://www.controlledlabs.com/product-category/preworkout/

also how am I supposed to get  2 μM evodiamine and 100 μM berberine  ? thats what the study used. Am I supposed to take it many times a day? the half lifes on both are short.

Farshad wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:

Farshad wrote:
I dont know man its all confusing me too im just copying and pasting what it says. your right I need to target my Sert. But I do know my serotonin is High not for a fact but  im pretty sure.

I will try that Evodiamine + berberine. what dosages ? how will this combo affect me? Im not good at understanding studies .

where can I get Evodiamine ?
will this work? it has other ingredients but it says it has 3,685mg evodiamine https://www.bodybuilding.com/store/controlled-labs/white-flood-classic.html

Yeah White Flood might work.
For Berberine use Thorne Research Brand.

theres 2 versions that one doesent seem to have Evodiamine I think?
http://www.controlledlabs.com/product-category/preworkout/

also how am I supposed to get  2 μM evodiamine and 100 μM berberine  ? thats what the study used.

You don't need to use that much!
Just use the standard doses, trust me.
We have users on this forum (look in PSSD section) who have attained major benefit just using Berberine with the instructions on the bottle.
You can add Icariin (a natural PDE-5 inhibitor) to make both of those stronger as well!

Area-1255 wrote:

Farshad wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:

Farshad wrote:
I dont know man its all confusing me too im just copying and pasting what it says. your right I need to target my Sert. But I do know my serotonin is High not for a fact but  im pretty sure.

I will try that Evodiamine + berberine. what dosages ? how will this combo affect me? Im not good at understanding studies .

where can I get Evodiamine ?
will this work? it has other ingredients but it says it has 3,685mg evodiamine https://www.bodybuilding.com/store/controlled-labs/white-flood-classic.html

Yeah White Flood might work.
For Berberine use Thorne Research Brand.

theres 2 versions that one doesent seem to have Evodiamine I think?
http://www.controlledlabs.com/product-category/preworkout/

also how am I supposed to get  2 μM evodiamine and 100 μM berberine  ? thats what the study used.

You don't need to use that much!
Just use the standard doses, trust me.
We have users on this forum (look in PSSD section) who have attained major benefit just using Berberine with the instructions on the bottle.
You can add Icariin (a natural PDE-5 inhibitor) to make both of those stronger as well!

oh .. I thought μM  meant like low dosage smaller than mg stupid me.

anyway should I take it more than once a day? the half life on berberine and evodiamine are very short .

Farshad wrote:


oh .. I thought μM  meant lower...  stupid me.

anyway should I take it more than once a day? the half life on berberine and evodiamine are very short .

Nope, twice or thrice a day, 4 hours apart.
You can use Milk Thistle Extract to increase absorption/extend the time in the body of those nutrients.
Milk Thistle and P-Glycoprotein --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15072439

We just wrote an article on SERT Activators/stimulators/agonists @Farshad and @Kpavel, check it out!
--> https://area1255.blogspot.com/2017/12/natural-herbal-sert-serotonin.html

I think I found a better way to get Evodiamine .
its called Wu Zhu Yu in chinese.
https://www.amazon.com/Wu-Zhu-Yu-concentrated-Fong/dp/B0041MGY2G
or
https://www.amazon.com/TCMzone-Zhu-Tang-100-vcaps/dp/B007Q4C772

isnt berberine + evodiamine like taking an SSRI? (edit) nvm
also whats this TRPV1 I  am reading about. (nvm)

(edit) should I try bacopa and forskolin combo too?

Im still very intrested in ATD.

So I take the gelatin to balance out the tryptophan the steak contains. But where can  I  get   gelatin to take 100 grams everyday?  will taking a high dosage protein 100g+ will that deplet serotonin from the steak? ?Do I need to take  it with the meal?

Only drink water got it.



Will this amino acid work? doesent have L-cysteine  , glycine, L-proline  ,  and L-serine and also the dosages are 5Grams only.

https://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/essential-amino-energy.html

Will taking 100 grams whey protein be enough to cover the 4 amino acids I dont take and the need to take gelatin?

hmm the latest post I think I have 4  serotonin Short types... is that even possible?
rs11867581  - AA= 2 short
then another SNP rs2020934 - AA = 2 short again
so I have total 4 Short ??? that would make sense... So I have a lot more Serotonin in my synapse right? lower transporter, higher 5HT

Usually people just have 2 right? so I have twice as much serotonin .....



thats why eleuthero  wont work
I also thought I had LOW NMDA activity at first but someone said its very common so I dont think I have it.
Panax Ginseng/white willow bark  wont work because its not increasing SERT just blocking sertonin receptor there will still be serotonin in the synapse...

so that leaves me only 2 choices
Evodiamine + berberine Increase SERT
Progesterone  orally (increase MAO)
and well 3 .... ATD forever
last resort fenclonine (inhibit TPH)









I have  also the  T allele of rs1049353 which cause lower receptor numbers and less activation. With this variation, the receptors also don't become significantly less sensitive when activated (R) - i.e. you don't build up tolerance.

Farshad wrote:hmm the latest post I think I have 4  serotonin Short types... is that even possible?
rs11867581  - AA= 2 short
then another SNP rs2020934 - AA = 2 short again
so I have total 4 Short ??? that would make sense... So I have a lot more Serotonin in my synapse right? lower transporter, higher 5HT

Usually people just have 2 right? so I have twice as much serotonin .....



thats why eleuthero  wont work
I also thought I had LOW NMDA activity at first but someone said its very common so I dont think I have it.
Panax Ginseng/white willow bark  wont work because its not increasing SERT just blocking sertonin receptor there will still be serotonin in the synapse...

so that leaves me only 2 choices
Evodiamine + berberine Increase SERT
Progesterone  orally (increase MAO)
and well 3 .... ATD forever
last resort fenclonine (inhibit TPH)









I have  also the  T allele of rs1049353 which cause lower receptor numbers and less activation. With this variation, the receptors also don't become significantly less sensitive when activated (R) - i.e. you don't build up tolerance.

Progesterone is the one thing I disagree most with Peat about. I'm a pro-androgen guy, Progesterone isn't compatible with my "theories" of which the majority of the bodybuilding community and even scientific community agrees with. Progesterone is even shunned on Longecity by their brave men. Why in the hell would you want to promote something that is just a phase, a trend? Something that will fade into oblivion in a matter of years?

Just do the ATD/Fenclonine, and use that + Berberine & Evodiamine.

I find your case very interesting because I'm the total opposite, low Serotonin (at least in brain I guess, urine Serotonin was very high) and high Acetylcholine.

I just supposed you have very low Acetylcholine because you think fast but not very deep and have problems learning? While I think slow but very deep.

I also got lack of motivation which I attribute to low Dopamine levels. I'm not sure if my social anxiety is from low Serotonin or high Norepinephrine or a combination of both.

Phenibut for example calms me from inner nervousness by decreasing Norepinephrine.

PubMed ID: 19334514 (can't post links in first 7 days)

Here's a nice diagram of the Neurotransmitter balance:

researchgate dot net/figure/261034228_fig5_The-mobile-confirms-that-diazepam-reduces-imbalances-during-alcohol-withdrawal-Circles


So I'm curious how you would react to Huperzine A + ALCAR + DMAE + fish oil because that combination would knock me out (it raises ACh).

Because higher ACh should balance out the Serotonin.

It's contradicting that you mentioned on LC that you have OCD which is associated with low Serotonin. Either you are wrong or you have different levels of Serotonin in different parts of the brain.

Also, how is your stool consistency? Low Serotonin is usually connected with constipation while high Serotonin is connected with diarrhea (but this more reflects the PNS levels of Serotonin).

In this article there are maybe some drugs that you didn't try yet.

PubMed ID: 27652229