The problems are overwhelming me, looking for insight

I'm amazed at the information and data the guys here have dug up, and the manner in which they are open to all forms of treatment is refreshing.

Problems I've had since childhood:

1. Premature ejaculation
2. Cold hands and feet
3. Trouble waking up
4. Unable to have sex more than once a night (since around 20)
5. Balding at age 19, took propecia for a month
6. anxiety
7. dark circles under eyes
8. couldn't make gains in gym with good diet and work out

Problems that arose in my mid 20's

1. Erectile dysfunction with premature ejactulation
2. anxiety/depression
3. compulsive porn/masturbation binges (since 17)
4. overall andohenia

I've since read and researched non stop, gone to numerous forums (which have all been very helpful) and worked with a very open and helpful dr. My labs have been done so many times and i've tried so many things, I'll just give you an overview.

Adrenals/Thyroid:
1. first HC and naturethroid helped
2. synthetic t4/t3 helps more (i feel better mentally on highter t4)
3. HOWEVER t3 only gave me my best erection/ejac control, but not best overall health
4. found out preg/prog/dhea were all below range.
5. Supping oral preg and dhea boosts my preg/prog/cortisol very well, almost perfectly - but often exacerbates ED
TL:DL - preg/dhea works best, but doesn't help ed, t4/t3 helps best, doesn't help ed/pe....t3 only worked great for ed/pe

Testosterone:
On 100mg Test Cyp/ week and 330HCG 3x I always had:

Total Test 1100 (250-1100)
Test Free 218 HIGH (35-155)

Estradiol 31 (<29 pg/ml)

Estradiol Free 0.73 HIGH (<0.45 PG/ML)

Estrone 54 (<68 pg/ml)

DHT 49 (16-79 NG/DL)

On 4 pumps of T Gel and no hcg:

TT 1020 (250-1100)

Free T 232.6 HIGH (35-155)

SHBG 28 (10-50)

Estradiol <10 (11-44) Not sensitive, lab tech entered wrong one

Test has fixed most of my anxiety, and all of my depression. It has given me more constant energy and drive and also allowed me to make great gain at the gym. It alone however, did not really help my pe/ed issues that much. Gel seemed to help sex drive more at first, then dropped off, I'm thinking the e2 waas continuing to drop.

TL:DR Test in either form is good, Gels = low e2 (bad) high dht (good) shots = Good e2, meh dht (not good) Neither alone have a solo impact on pe/ed

Psychiatric meds/supps

A nuerotransmitter test showed low Serotonin, high NE, low dopamine. This matches my Pe/ed issues with porn obsession.

1. SSRIs that only made me more lethargic and didn't help PE - Celexa, Lexapro

2. Zoloft works great on mood, erections, pe, FOR ABOUT THREE MONTHS, then It makes me fat, apathetic, and pe/ed comes right back (no pun intended)

3. Trazodone gives intense erections, can't sleep on it though at all

4. Benzos allow great ed/pe and repeated rounds

5. DAs - Prami is hard on me, Caber gave great erections but makes me an even more porn obsessed manic freak, so does Ropinerole

6. Wellbutrin - gives me increidlbe drive and allows me to get so much done and focus on tasks, even at 75mg dosages, will give great erections for first month, then NE spike kills that

7. Ritalin does the same for focus and drive

8. Tyrosine - similar effect as Wellbutrin, but makes me angry
9. 5-Htp - makes me anxious, doesn't do the same as SSRI
10. l-dopa and citi choline - works similar to DA

This summer on t-gel, t3 only, and adding in zoloft gave me 3 months of almost perfect life. I wasn't watching porn, wasn't obsessing over my phone, was out and about, dating girls, having morning wood, random wood, sex was no issue, pe was no issue. I felt like a normal human being....then it wore off in Sept and I haven't found a solution yet. I stopped zoloft due to worse ed and pe returning.

Other drugs

1. alpha blocker doxazosin - taken 1mg at night will cause low cortisol issues, but gives great flaccid hang, when combined with cialis and zoloft dailly, had pretty good erections

2. Yohimbine - works ok, increases PE - NE I assume

3. Coffee - instant cold hands feet for hours NE again

4. Pd5's - sometimes work, sometimes I have no reaction, not even stuffy nose or anything

Sorry for the entire info dump and total indecisiveness. What do you see out of this?

osirisrisen wrote:I'm amazed at the information and data the guys here have dug up, and the manner in which they are open to all forms of treatment is refreshing.

Problems I've had since childhood:

1.  Premature ejaculation
2.  Cold hands and feet
3.  Trouble waking up
4.  Unable to have sex more than once a night (since around 20)
5.  Balding at age 19, took propecia for a month
6. anxiety
7.  dark circles under eyes
8.  couldn't make gains in gym with good diet and work out

These all seem to be related to prolactin, have you had a prolactin blood test? Balding and 5-alpha-reductase tend to be related to Prolactin, and being TRT many times it makes sense that prolactin would stay elevated, especially at the pituitary level.

osirisrisen wrote:
Problems that arose in my mid 20's

1.  Erectile dysfunction with premature ejactulation
2.  anxiety/depression
3.  compulsive porn/masturbation binges (since 17)
4.  overall andohenia

I've since read and researched non stop, gone to numerous forums (which have all been very helpful) and worked with a very open and helpful dr.  My labs have been done so many times and i've tried so many things, I'll just give you an overview.

Adrenals/Thyroid:
1.  first HC and naturethroid helped
2.  synthetic t4/t3 helps more (i feel better mentally on highter t4)
3.  HOWEVER t3 only gave me my best erection/ejac control, but not best overall health
4.  found out preg/prog/dhea were all below range.  
5.  Supping oral preg and dhea boosts my preg/prog/cortisol very well, almost perfectly - but often exacerbates ED
TL:DL - preg/dhea works best, but doesn't help ed, t4/t3 helps best, doesn't help ed/pe....t3 only worked great for ed/pe

I find it strange neurosteroids would worsen your E.D, usually is the opposite, although DHEA is questionable and seems to be able to release NE in some situations.

osirisrisen wrote:
Testosterone:
On 100mg Test Cyp/ week and 330HCG 3x I always had:

Total Test 1100 (250-1100)
Test Free 218 HIGH (35-155)

Estradiol 31 (<29 pg/ml)

Estradiol Free 0.73 HIGH (<0.45 PG/ML)

Estrone 54 (<68 pg/ml)

DHT 49 (16-79 NG/DL)

On 4 pumps of T Gel and no hcg:

TT 1020 (250-1100)

Free T 232.6 HIGH (35-155)

SHBG 28 (10-50)

Estradiol <10 (11-44) Not sensitive, lab tech entered wrong one

Test has fixed most of my anxiety, and all of my depression.  It has given me more constant energy and drive and also allowed me to make great gain at the gym.  It alone however, did not really help my pe/ed issues that much.  Gel seemed to help sex drive more at first, then dropped off, I'm thinking the e2 waas continuing to drop.

TL:DR Test in either form is good, Gels = low e2 (bad) high dht (good) shots = Good e2, meh dht (not good) Neither alone have a solo impact on pe/ed

Psychiatric meds/supps

A nuerotransmitter test showed low Serotonin, high NE, low dopamine.  This matches my Pe/ed issues with porn obsession.

1.  SSRIs that only made me more lethargic and didn't help PE - Celexa, Lexapro

2. Zoloft works great on mood, erections, pe, FOR ABOUT THREE MONTHS, then It makes me fat, apathetic, and pe/ed comes right back (no pun intended)

3.  Trazodone gives intense erections, can't sleep on it though at all

4.  Benzos allow great ed/pe and repeated rounds

5.  DAs - Prami is hard on me, Caber gave great erections but makes me an even more porn obsessed manic freak, so does Ropinerole

6.  Wellbutrin - gives me increidlbe drive and allows me to get so much done and focus on tasks, even at 75mg dosages, will give great erections for first month, then NE spike kills that

7.  Ritalin does the same for focus and drive

8.  Tyrosine - similar effect as Wellbutrin, but makes me angry
9.  5-Htp - makes me anxious, doesn't do the same as SSRI
10.  l-dopa and citi choline - works similar to DA

This summer on t-gel, t3 only, and adding in zoloft gave me 3 months of almost perfect life.  I wasn't watching porn, wasn't obsessing over my phone, was out and about, dating girls, having morning wood, random wood, sex was no issue, pe was no issue.  I felt like a normal human being....then it wore off in Sept and I haven't found a solution yet.  I stopped zoloft due to worse ed and pe returning.

Other drugs

1.  alpha blocker doxazosin - taken 1mg at night will cause low cortisol issues, but gives great flaccid hang, when combined with cialis and zoloft dailly, had pretty good erections

2.  Yohimbine - works ok, increases PE - NE I assume

3.  Coffee - instant cold hands feet for hours  NE again

4.  Pd5's - sometimes work, sometimes I have no reaction, not even stuffy nose or anything

Sorry for the entire info dump and total indecisiveness.  What do you see out of this?  

You need to get prolactin checked too, also, you say you were porn-addicted maniac on dopaminergics, why couldn't you just workout, was it that strong? Doesn't seem to indicate low E2 or high E2, at least not in the accumulative sense.

It might just be you need to re-adjust your TRT, or re-add in hCG with adex therapy under the right circumstances.

Also, I would get a urine, 24 hour test for neural parameter's.

5-HT1AA ; a serotonin metabolite. would be helpful being that you speak of premature ejac etc
METANEPHRINE;NORMETANEPHRINE; adrenaline metabolites, so we can tell what exactly is the source of your stimulation...whether its totally adrenergic or from a more central stimulation such as glutamate or g-proteins.








What was your most recent estrogen test?

Area-1255 wrote:
These all seem to be related to prolactin, have you had a prolactin blood test? Balding and 5-alpha-reductase tend to be related to Prolactin, and being TRT many times it makes sense that prolactin would stay elevated, especially at the pituitary level.

I did long time ago, don't remember.  Prolactin has to be an issue as i have zero urge for sex after an orgasm...never knew about the balding and 5-alpha stuff was related to it.  Will get it tested

Area-1255 wrote:
I find it strange neurosteroids would worsen your E.D, usually is the opposite, although DHEA is questionable and seems to be able to release NE in some situations.

It could be my imagination, adding preg and dhea do make me feel better, focused, and positive.  Also warms hands and feet up.  Adding back at 50mg each in AM

Area-1255 wrote:

You need to get prolactin checked too, also, you say you were porn-addicted maniac on dopaminergics, why couldn't you just workout, was it that strong? Doesn't seem to indicate low E2 or high E2, at least not in the accumulative sense.

The porn thing is all mental, yes the DA made it more interesting, but I can control it with my will.  

Area-1255 wrote:
It might just be you need to re-adjust your TRT, or re-add in hCG with adex therapy under the right circumstances.

I am going back to IM test cyp, doing 40mg with 500iu hcg e3.5d

Area-1255 wrote:

Also, I would get a urine, 24 hour test for neural parameter's.

5-HT1AA ; a serotonin metabolite. would be helpful being that you speak of premature ejac etc
METANEPHRINE;NORMETANEPHRINE; adrenaline metabolites, so we can tell what exactly is the source of your stimulation...whether its totally adrenergic or from a more central stimulation such as glutamate or g-proteins.

Here is one I had done a long time ago
Serotonin 71.3 LOW (100-150)

5-HIAA 4253.8 Elevated (2000-3000)

Glycine 1107 Elevated (390-750)

Taurine 88.9 (65-360)

GABA 5.8 Elevated (3.8-5.7)

Glutamate 25.7 Elevated (12-22)

PEA 22 (20-40)

Histamine 8.6 (8-14)

Creatinine 119.5 (28-259)

Epinephrine 6.7 Elevated (4-6)

Norepinephrine 29.8 Elevated (15-23)

Dopamine 87.8 (75-120)

DOPAC 883.8 (530-930)

Area-1255 wrote:




What was your most recent estrogen test?

The <10 one above is most recent on gels and no hcg

The 31 one on IM test was about six months prior to that.  Im' thining my erections were good bc my e2 was a tad high on shots, and when i first switched to gels it dropped in the good range for a few months, then dropped too low, hoping my new trt plan above will remedy this.  Thanks for the quick and very insightful reply.

One other thing, this summer (June) I contracted Lymes Disease but stopped it before the bulls eye even showed up. Got a shot in the ER and was on Doxy for a month. Never had any symptoms after that. Ironically, all the good stuff with my ED and Pe also happened when on Doxy....not sure if there is a connection.

osirisrisen wrote:

Here is one I had done a long time ago
Serotonin 71.3 LOW (100-150)

5-HIAA 4253.8 Elevated (2000-3000)

Glycine 1107 Elevated (390-750)

Taurine 88.9 (65-360)

GABA 5.8 Elevated (3.8-5.7)

Glutamate 25.7 Elevated (12-22)

PEA 22 (20-40)

Histamine 8.6 (8-14)

Creatinine 119.5 (28-259)

Epinephrine 6.7 Elevated (4-6)

Norepinephrine 29.8 Elevated (15-23)

Dopamine 87.8 (75-120)

DOPAC 883.8 (530-930)

So your excretion rate of serotonin is up, level of serotonin is down...very strange, have you ever gotten a hair copper analysis?

High copper tends to cause both zinc deficiency, prolactin and DHT excess, and noradrenaline/adrenaline issues....

How do you feel on zinc and magnesium?

It does make sense with low serotonin that you would have higher GABA and glutamate, because serotonin normally regulates both of those....I am a bit surprised histamine is not higher....

Definitely check copper levels if you can.

Area-1255 wrote:

osirisrisen wrote:

Here is one I had done a long time ago
Serotonin 71.3 LOW (100-150)

5-HIAA 4253.8 Elevated (2000-3000)

Glycine 1107 Elevated (390-750)

Taurine 88.9 (65-360)

GABA 5.8 Elevated (3.8-5.7)

Glutamate 25.7 Elevated (12-22)

PEA 22 (20-40)

Histamine 8.6 (8-14)

Creatinine 119.5 (28-259)

Epinephrine 6.7 Elevated (4-6)

Norepinephrine 29.8 Elevated (15-23)

Dopamine 87.8 (75-120)

DOPAC 883.8 (530-930)

So your excretion rate of serotonin is up, level of serotonin is down...very strange, have you ever gotten a hair copper analysis?

High copper tends to cause both zinc deficiency, prolactin and DHT excess, and noradrenaline/adrenaline issues....

How do you feel on zinc and magnesium?

It does make sense with low serotonin that you would have higher GABA and glutamate, because serotonin normally regulates both of those....I am a bit surprised histamine is not higher....

Definitely check copper levels if you can.

Which is the best way to test copper, and is there an INS covered one? I have a shaved head so how does hair testing work, if that is best?

A long time ago, zinc made me feel bad (i think). Mag in any form makes me shit my brains out instantly (citrate esp). Epsom Salt baths knock me out hardcore then when I got to sleep i have very restless sleep. My RBC Magnesium years ago was low, but supping it has always been an issue.

Here are some other old (2011) results

RBC Magnesium 4.5 (4.2-6. low


and a spectracell nutrient test:

Vitamin Percentage range (all in >)

b1 - 78 deficient 78%

b2 56 53

b3 82 80

b6 53 deficient 54

b12 14 deficient 14

folate 39 32

pantothenate 7 deficient 7

biotin 50 34


serine 48 30

glutamine 47 37

asparagine 53 39

choline 23 20

inositol 68 56

carnitine 57 46

oleic acid 71 65

d3 62 50

a 77 70

k2 60 30

calcium 49 38

zinc 50 37

copper 52 42

magnesium 52 37

glucose-insuline interaction 49 38

fructose sensitivity 50 34

chromium 47 40

gluathione 57 42

cysteine 50 41

co q10 92 86

selenium 80 74

vitamin e 92 84

alpha lip acid 88 81

vit c 63 40

spectrox 63 deficient 65

osirisrisen wrote:
Which is the best way to test copper, and is there an INS covered one? I have a shaved head so how does hair testing work, if that is best?

A long time ago, zinc made me feel bad (i think). Mag in any form makes me shit my brains out instantly (citrate esp). Epsom Salt baths knock me out hardcore then when I got to sleep i have very restless sleep. My RBC Magnesium years ago was low, but supping it has always been an issue.

Try low dose liquid zinc-mag-orotate, might be easier on your stomach, how exactly do you respond to SSRI's?

As far as Copper, it's more difficult that way, I s'pose a urine/blood test would also be useful.

Area-1255 wrote:
Try low dose liquid zinc-mag-orotate, might be easier on your stomach, how exactly do you respond to SSRI's?

As far as Copper, it's more difficult that way, I s'pose a urine/blood test would also be useful.

Got ya on the zinc and mag ororate.


As far as SSRI's go, celexa and lexapro were horrible, all I felt on those were supreme apathy.  I wouldn't wash dishes, prepare for work, play guitar or practice at all, I just sat on my couch.

Zoloft (both times ive been on it) gives me about a week or so of anxiety, nothing big, but i get a little panicy and hot a few hours after the dose.  After that it settles in and keeps me from seeking out porn or sexing girls other than my gf.  Erection come back strong, and pe is gone, I have full control over my orgasm.  

This however, usually lasts about 3-4 months then it turns into apathy, weight gain, ed returns and pe returns, obsession/porn comes back.  This is typically at a 50mg dose.  I have noticed that going to all t3 or adding more t3 seems to re-sensitize me and brings back some good effects. However this eventually all goes to crap.   Upping to 75mg just makes lethargy and blunting worse.

Paxil taken on demand (10mg) helped with PE, but could also kill any interest in sex and woudl lead to extreme lethargy the next day.

Trazodone if taken for sleep never works, keeps me awake, but gives erections.

5-htp is kinda a big nothing, usually makes me anxious at high doses

osirisrisen wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:
Try low dose liquid zinc-mag-orotate, might be easier on your stomach, how exactly do you respond to SSRI's?

As far as Copper, it's more difficult that way, I s'pose a urine/blood test would also be useful.

Got ya on the zinc and mag ororate.


As far as SSRI's go, celexa and lexapro were horrible, all I felt on those were supreme apathy.  I wouldn't wash dishes, prepare for work, play guitar or practice at all, I just sat on my couch.

Zoloft (both times ive been on it) gives me about a week or so of anxiety, nothing big, but i get a little panicy and hot a few hours after the dose.  After that it settles in and keeps me from seeking out porn or sexing girls other than my gf.  Erection come back strong, and pe is gone, I have full control over my orgasm.  

This however, usually lasts about 3-4 months then it turns into apathy, weight gain, ed returns and pe returns, obsession/porn comes back.  This is typically at a 50mg dose.  I have noticed that going to all t3 or adding more t3 seems to re-sensitize me and brings back some good effects. However this eventually all goes to crap.   Upping to 75mg just makes lethargy and blunting worse.

Paxil taken on demand (10mg) helped with PE, but could also kill any interest in sex and woudl lead to extreme lethargy the next day.

Trazodone if taken for sleep never works, keeps me awake, but gives erections.

5-htp is kinda a big nothing, usually makes me anxious at high doses

Makes sense, serotonin causes anxiety in excess, by activating 5-HT2A, 3A, 5-HT4 and 5-HT7.

Serotonin is over rated and largely useless for men in contrast.
It's just that when you have low serotonin it's usually indicative of another problem and thus you have to ask WHAT is causing the low serotonin....with that being said, the only TRUE negative side-effects of low serotonin ITSELF; assuming every thing else is good, hormones included...would be constipation, premature ejac, and irritability.

That's WHEN ALL HORMONES ARE IN GOOD RATIO.

And the constipation may not be so for some, like I've had super low serotonin before and I wasn't constipated as long as I drank coffee throughout the day.

Irritability was MORE manageable with low serotonin than it is with low GABA imHo.

In general, alpha males usually have low serotonin so in a way you want to strive for that, but not if the cause of low serotonin is also an underlying issue causing other issues, ya feel me?

Point is , one thing set aside, totally independent isn't so much as an issue as a coordinated set of symptoms like yours.

JUST LIKE CORTISOL; low cortisol itself isn't bad, BUT IF THE REASON FOR LOW CORTISOL is adrenal fatigue, then there can be issues..and that's where much of medical science goes wrong.

I'm working on some very important projects right now, something that will hopefully pave the way for a new health and RC Revolution, so stay tuned.

-----------------------------------------------------------
BACK TO YOUR ISSUE
-----------------------------------------------------------

How do you respond to
1.) D-Aspartic acid?
2.) Forskolin?


Do you have any of the low NMDA-glutamate symptoms mentioned in this article of mine?

http://area1255.blogspot.com/2014/06/signs-and-symptoms-of-low-nmda-receptor.html


I suffered from this for a while, the worst part was feeling like I'm going insane, steadily, with constant "intrusive thoughts", that usually is either low histamine or low glutamate/aspartate at the NMDA receptor specifically, keep in mind you can have high glutamate everywhere else and not that specific receptor , and that makes it even worse.

Area-1255 wrote:


How do you respond to
1.) D-Aspartic acid?
2.) Forskolin?

As far as the nmda symptoms, I have the following:

You feel lethargic, and undermotivated.
You may sleep too much.
You have a low libido/sexual function - and possibly decreased sex hormones (including estradiol).
You may either have high or low blood pressure, and you respond poorly to workouts.
You may feel dependent on Stimulants or Alcohol.
Your ability to stay on task is hampered, or you lack consistency.


I feel amazing on ritalin, wellbutrin, or drinking, i feel more emotions, connected with people, and sexually driven. That being said, my day to day life is pretty darn good, i'm just looking for perfection here.

I haven't d-aspartic or forskolin, how do you see them benefiting me?

Further issues:
1. What has the porn binging caused? Is stopping my only hope?
2. Why did T gel and zoloft give great results for a while?
3. Should I try a DA again?
5. Adding in mag and zinc, for the record.

osirisrisen wrote:

Area-1255 wrote:


How do you respond to
1.) D-Aspartic acid?
2.) Forskolin?

As far as the nmda symptoms, I have the following:

You feel lethargic, and undermotivated.
You may sleep too much.
You have a low libido/sexual function - and possibly decreased sex hormones (including estradiol).
You may either have high or low blood pressure, and you respond poorly to workouts.
You may feel dependent on Stimulants or Alcohol.
Your ability to stay on task is hampered, or you lack consistency.


I feel amazing on ritalin, wellbutrin, or drinking, i feel more emotions, connected with people, and sexually driven.  That being said, my day to day life is pretty darn good, i'm just looking for perfection here.

I haven't d-aspartic or forskolin, how do you see them benefiting me?

Further issues:
1. What has the porn binging caused? Is stopping my only hope?
2.  Why did T gel and zoloft give great results for a while?
3.  Should I try a DA again?
5.  Adding in mag and zinc, for the record.

Try iForce nutrition INTIMIDATE; it might help with general focus and stuff, and raise oxytocin up if it is low. It also has a mild anti--estrogen in it.

Here's a review I wrote on it.
http://area1255.blogspot.com/2014/06/iforce-nutrition-intimidate-srt-review.html

Additionally, a dopamine reuptake inhibitor without the NET properly may benefit you, something like catuaba or flowering quince (mu gua) might be up your ally.

I'm gonna do a little more research and then hit you back with more suggestions....



Somethin weird is definitely going on, it's gonna take me a little bit of brainstorming.

So far I'm getting this as your overall suggestions (correct any mistakes):


Get preg/dhea boosted again

Get t and hcg dose right (reduce t, add hcg to boost e2)

mag/zinc to reduce possible copper toxicity

D-aspartic-acid for possible nmda issues

Some form of dopamine help (either a DA, or forskolin, catuaba, muira puima, macuna)  - which of these or combo is best?


I'm already starting the first three.  Where does the PE come into play again without serotonin help?  This is where I'm confused.

osirisrisen wrote:So far I'm getting this as your overall suggestions (correct any mistakes):


Get preg/dhea boosted again

Get t and hcg dose right (reduce t, add hcg to boost e2)

mag/zinc to reduce possible copper toxicity

D-aspartic-acid for possible nmda issues

Some form of dopamine help (either a DA, or forskolin, catuaba, muira puima, macuna)  - which of these or combo is best?


I'm already starting the first three.  Where does the PE come into play again without serotonin help?  This is where I'm confused.

I'm not so sure you have to raise E2, and you don't need to raise serotonin to treat pre-E; pre-E tends to come from too much adenlyate cyclase , although it could also come from too little...usually high glutamate or histamine is the cause, so it's just a matter of balancing it out.

Dapoxetine is the recommended short-acting SSRI for premature ejaculation and porn stars use it as part of their novelty stacks.

The rest I agree with, though it's all up in the air and I have to brainstorm some more, because it's a complicated situation tbh.

I'll hit you back with something in a little while.

So I had another look at everything, and I think the norepinephrine issue is definitely impacting you, especially since you mention flaccid hang increased on doxy. The fact that yohimbine worked for you in the E.D aspect at all is odd, considering it would normally just raise norepinephrine more....although it's anti-serotonergic effects are pro-sexual...since you already have lower serotonin - I can't imagine it being that much of use.

Please let me know when you get a hair / blood copper test again, what the results are....

It may be a good idea to not use certain adrenergic stims, however, a reuptake inhibitor like flowering quince (mu gua) may be a good option.

Magnolia officinalis may also help tone down the sympathetic nervous system.

A few more questions.

Area-1255 wrote:-Have you ever taken huperzine A, donepezil or other acetylcholine boosting agents; if so, how did they make you feel? Low levels of acetylcholine can lead to excessive sympathetic nervous system activity and hypersecretion of adrenaline as well.

-Have you ever gotten a blood test for acetylcholine?

-Does your family have a history of anxiety disorders, alcoholism or any such thing?

Area-1255 wrote:So I had another look at everything, and I think the norepinephrine issue is definitely impacting you, especially since you mention flaccid hang increased on doxy. The fact that yohimbine worked for you in the E.D aspect at all is odd, considering it would normally just raise norepinephrine more....although it's anti-serotonergic effects are pro-sexual...since you already have lower serotonin - I can't imagine it being that much of use.

Agreed NE is an issue. The yohimbe and/or yohimbine I think did boost NE to very uncomfortable levels, I suspect the alpha blockade is what helped though. I'm thinking High NE in my body, but low NE at the penis due to alpha 1 and 2 blockade. Eitherway, i'm not going to continue it. I already have the shrinkage as it is. Only Doxazosin gives a great flaccid hang.

Area-1255 wrote:
Please let me know when you get a hair / blood copper test again, what the results are....

Rodger that. May be a few weeks

Area-1255 wrote:
It may be a good idea to not use certain adrenergic stims, however, a reuptake inhibitor like flowering quince (mu gua) may be a good option.

Magnolia officinalis may also help tone down the sympathetic nervous system.

What are andrenergic stims?

Area-1255 wrote:
A few more questions.

Have you ever taken huperzine A, donepezil or other acetylcholine boosting agents; if so, how did they make you feel? Low levels of acetylcholine can lead to excessive sympathetic nervous system activity and hypersecretion of adrenaline as well.

-Have you ever gotten a blood test for acetylcholine?

-Does your family have a history of anxiety disorders, alcoholism or any such thing?

Only Acetylcholine sup I have is Citicholine, felt a mild DA boost

No blood test ever done for acetylcholine.

Yes, my father is very anxious and has taken xanax for years (won't listen to my advice). My mother is quite OCD.

osirisrisen wrote:
What are andrenergic stims?



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Yes, my father is very anxious and has taken xanax for years (won't listen to my advice).  My mother is quite OCD.

Adrenergic stims would be geranamine/DMAA, phenylephrine, some cough syrups or ephedrine, and things like clen-buterol; I know many guys use it for working out but if you have high adrenaline you definitely want to stay away from it.

Also keep your caffeine intake to under 200 mg / dose, and no more than 3 times a day, spread out by at least 4 hours.

So two months ago, here's what I was doing

Here were my labs on 9/27/14 - drawn two hours after gel application

4 pumps t-gel
No hcg
I was also on zoloft and t3 and dialy cialis. This combo earlier was giving me morning wood, great EQ, and overall perfect health, mood etc. Then things started to drop and so I took the above labs.

Total Test 1020 (250-1100)
Free Test 232 (35-155) flagged HIGH
Test binding Globulin 28 (10-50)
estradiol (non sensitive, made a mistake) <10 (11-44)

e2 seemed way low. My guess was that coming off shots and going to gels somewhere I hit a sweet spot with test, e2, dht then after some time on the gels, the dropping e2 brought back my issues.

**************************************Then I did the following for the last Month******************************

3 pumps fortesta (down a pump from above)
HCG 100iu /day
50mg Preg Oral
50mg DHEA
25mcg T3
So after a month or more on three pumps Fortesta and a daily HCG shot of 100iu, I noticed what "felt" like high E2. Lifts were not progressing in gym, energy was falling, and I was crying at the most trivial stuff ever. I assumed my Dhea and higher hcg must have put my e2 through the roof. I was wrong. Here are my current labs

TSH 0.19 LOW (.35-4.9)

T4 2.8 Low (4.5-12)

Total T3 2.5High (0.6-1.6)

RT3 5 LOW (8-25)

Prolactin 8 (3-19)

DHEA-S 416 (167-591)

Prog 1.1 <1.4

Test Total 578 (250-1100)
Test Free 120 (35-155)

DHT 84 HIGH (16-79)
Estrone 16 (<68)

e2 13 (<29)

Preg 63 (13-208)

Lowering Test dose BY ONE PUMP dropped TT big time, adding hcg didn't up e2 at all. Still not getting the libido and ED benefits I was this summer. Also going back to Naturethroid at 3grains a day to get a more balanced t3/t4.

Questions:

Would doing bigger, less frequent HCG doses (like 250m,w,f) up e2?
If e2 is low, why was I so weepy, emotional, and wussy?

Options:

Up dose to 5 pumps, do HCG 250iu mwf (hoping to get the libido/ED boost I had on gels, and the higher e2 with HCG)

or

Back to shots 80mg/week and no hcg to see where that puts me with e2 (shots keep e2 around 20, but ED and libido isn't as solid as gels when they are on)

osirisrisen wrote:
Would doing bigger, less frequent HCG doses (like 250m,w,f) up e2?

Yes, it would, but it may not be consistent or it may shift progesterone into overgear which may then alter DHT levels.....

osirisrisen wrote:

If e2 is low, why was I so weepy, emotional, and wussy?

Low E2 usually is more so associated with anhedonia or depresssion - but this can happen - it's called a paradoxical effect..because low E2 often results in adrenaline surges and a decrease in dopamine - it's possible that a state of anxiety or paradoxical over-excitation can precede this over-emotional state.